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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Timing


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.flatpickerhangout.com/archive/4783

Chadtheguru - Posted - 09/10/2008:  11:26:00


Last night I learned something. My timing is awful. I used Audacity to lay a click track and it took several tries to get a rhythm track laid that kept up with the click track. I finally got one that wasn't good, but bearable.

The next problem was getting the lead down. I can play the song clear and fast and everything, but I couldn't get it to work with the rhythm track. The timing was always a fraction behind the downbeat. After many, many tries, I just played with the click track and it was better. I was able to at least get something that was listen-to-able. I guess I'm more used to playing with the metronome than the guitar accompaniment guitar.

I know my problem is that I'm learning everything by myself. The solution, of course, is practice, practice, practice. I'm going to have to spend a lot of time with Audacity working on my rhythm as well as my lead timing.

Has anybody else run into this? Is it going to be a major problem when I show up to a jam?

Chad

Chadtheguru - Posted - 09/10/2008:  11:46:40


Also I put a Topic in the Sound Off! section for feedback on my tune. Please listen to it and comment there.

Chad

Bird Dog - Posted - 09/10/2008:  12:01:11


I'd be more inclined to say the problem is playing alone. Nothing improves your rhythm as much as playing with good musicians.

Robin

Chadtheguru - Posted - 09/10/2008:  12:13:53


Yup. The nail on the head. Since I started on fiddle tunes, I've been pretty much by meself.

Chad

fpeay - Posted - 09/10/2008:  19:13:15


The problem may not be as bad as you think - when you record in audacity, you have to sync the tracks after you record them because there is a slight latency on the 2nd and subsequent tracks.

Edited to add - I just listened to your mp3 & it was good!

Frank


Edited by - fpeay on 09/10/2008 19:17:40

Chadtheguru - Posted - 09/10/2008:  19:21:17


I was wondering about something like that. I didn't think I was THAT bad. Is there a function to do that automatically or do you have to do it manually?

fpeay - Posted - 09/10/2008:  19:55:44


You have to do it manually; you need to use the 'zoom' to get a close look at the tracks and then shift the subsequent tracks to line up with the first track. There is an icon near the top left of the toolbar (my recollection is that it looks like an "I") that you have to click to get into "shift" mode. You can then use your mouse to drag the currently selected track to line up with the first track.

I think there is also info in the audacity help about sync'ing tracks. Let me know if you can't figure it out and I will try to give you better/more accurate info.

Frank

Chadtheguru - Posted - 09/10/2008:  20:00:58


I got it!

It turns out I don't suck so much after all. A little timing shift was all that was needed.

Thanks very, very, very much, fpeay. You just saved my self-image. I KNEW I wasn't that far off when I was playing. I thought I was just so out of tune that I couldn't get it. I can't believe it was that simple.

New copy is up on the jukebox!

musekatcher - Posted - 09/10/2008:  21:48:44


All really good things to know. I've been using Audacity to mix. BTW, as far as timing goes, Dad always said you'll hit a wall with too much woodshedding, and you should get out and play with other folks to really improve. It only took me 15 years to test him, and by golly gum, he was right. I get right ragged if I'm not playing with other folks.

Jim Holland
Athens, AL

HD28 - Posted - 09/11/2008:  06:09:36


Hey Chad,
I know everyone has their own opinion so here is mine. I have been playing for a while now and around these parts I am more known for my rhythm more than my flatpicking because it is truly what I practiced on more when I was younger more than anything.

When I had now one to pick with I used some Bluegrass Album Band cds to play along with and tried to keep time with Tony and now I would say I am pretty effecient. The only thing that really kicks me right now is when I play with some of my friends who have not timine and it gets me screwed up sometimes. There are a lot of good videos out now on nothing but rhythm playing, Wyatt Rice has a good one out that is pretty good.

The thing that really got me when I was younger what I did not understand that basicaly all I had to do on most songs was count to 4 (4/4 timing). Hitting my down beats at the right time while playing the boom chuck. Now I still use the "boom chuck" style and mix it with what I call a Tony Rice "whip" upstroke. Once I got that down timing for me was really no problem. There is a video on Youtube of Bryan Kimsey demonstrating this.

Also get yourself a "GOOD" metronome and use it religiously with upping your speed untill you start to mess up and stop there and work on that speed for a while. Also when you build up speed don't forget to work yourself back down in speed. Sometimes the slower stuff will get you as much as the faster stuff will. Then work on some 3/4 timming going up and down in speed on the metronome.

Dont know if this is any help at all but good luck buddy and don't give up!


"I Pick a HD-28 99.999999% of the time."


Edited by - HD28 on 09/11/2008 06:16:46

Chadtheguru - Posted - 09/11/2008:  07:11:09


quote:
Originally posted by HD28

When I had now one to pick with I used some Bluegrass Album Band cds to play along with and tried to keep time with Tony and now I would say I am pretty effecient. The only thing that really kicks me right now is when I play with some of my friends who have not timine and it gets me screwed up sometimes. There are a lot of good videos out now on nothing but rhythm playing, Wyatt Rice has a good one out that is pretty good.

The thing that really got me when I was younger what I did not understand that basicaly all I had to do on most songs was count to 4 (4/4 timing). Hitting my down beats at the right time while playing the boom chuck. Now I still use the "boom chuck" style and mix it with what I call a Tony Rice "whip" upstroke. Once I got that down timing for me was really no problem. There is a video on Youtube of Bryan Kimsey demonstrating this.

Also get yourself a "GOOD" metronome and use it religiously with upping your speed untill you start to mess up and stop there and work on that speed for a while. Also when you build up speed don't forget to work yourself back down in speed. Sometimes the slower stuff will get you as much as the faster stuff will. Then work on some 3/4 timming going up and down in speed on the metronome.



I think my timing's okay now that I've figured out the little technical problem. Timing has always been a peeve of mine and thinking I was that far off really shook me up.

I occasionally play along with the Album Band and others on my mp3 player, but more for stamina than anything else. Gone are the days when I could play for hours way into the early morning without fatigue. I need to get back going with that.

Also, I do have a mini-tak that I've been practicing with. A fine piece of German workmanship. I love that little thing.

Chadtheguru - Posted - 09/11/2008:  07:12:59


quote:
Originally posted by Chadtheguru

[quote]Originally posted by HD28

When I had now one to pick with I used some Bluegrass Album Band cds to play along with and tried to keep time with Tony and now I would say I am pretty effecient. The only thing that really kicks me right now is when I play with some of my friends who have not timine and it gets me screwed up sometimes. There are a lot of good videos out now on nothing but rhythm playing, Wyatt Rice has a good one out that is pretty good.

The thing that really got me when I was younger what I did not understand that basicaly all I had to do on most songs was count to 4 (4/4 timing). Hitting my down beats at the right time while playing the boom chuck. Now I still use the "boom chuck" style and mix it with what I call a Tony Rice "whip" upstroke. Once I got that down timing for me was really no problem. There is a video on Youtube of Bryan Kimsey demonstrating this.

Also get yourself a "GOOD" metronome and use it religiously with upping your speed untill you start to mess up and stop there and work on that speed for a while. Also when you build up speed don't forget to work yourself back down in speed. Sometimes the slower stuff will get you as much as the faster stuff will. Then work on some 3/4 timming going up and down in speed on the metronome.



I think my timing's okay now that I've figured out the little technical problem. Timing has always been a peeve of mine and thinking I was that far off really shook me up.

I occasionally play along with the Album Band and others on my mp3 player, but more for stamina than anything else. Gone are the days when I could play for hours way into the early morning without fatigue. I need to get back going with that.

Also, I do have a mini-tak that I've been practicing with. A fine piece of German workmanship. I love that little thing.

Thanks much for the advice though. I am going to start back practicing rhythm and longevity, at least occasionally.

fpeay - Posted - 09/11/2008:  10:40:30


Chad - your new whiskey sounds great. I wish a little timing shift was all it took to make my recordings sound that good!

Frank

Austinmike - Posted - 09/12/2008:  13:00:21


I live out in the sticks and as such don't get to play with other as much as I would like, but....I rarely play or practice at home without playing along with band in a box or tabledit. Especially when I am first learning a song, or working on variations.

Mike

Chadtheguru - Posted - 09/12/2008:  13:18:11


Oooh. I forgot about Band-in-a-Box. That'd be the ideal accompaniment, esp. if I want to sing as well as play.

Brian T - Posted - 02/20/2009:  09:20:54


I had a black time getting in synch with the drum machine (BOSS DR660) but a couple of weeks later, I'm having a good time. I can settle down and really listen both to what I'm doing and the preset DM track.

"Keep Your Eyes On The Horizon" (K.T. Oslin)

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