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Originally posted by slowhand

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Originally posted by jazzrambler


Play through your mistakes. If you stop and restart every time you hit a clam, what are you really practicing? (Stop me if you've heard this one...) I played with a young hotshot sax player who muttered "SH#T!" under his breath when he hit clams while warming up. I warned him that he was practicing saying "Sh#T!" more than he realized. Sure enough, he said it into the mic on a gig, and of course, at a very bad time and place. Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.

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Something I think that really helps condition you to play through mistakes when practicing by yourself is to play along with a practice track, rather than a metronome, whenever possible. With a metronome, when I flub, I tend to back up and re-play the flubbed part, but with a practice track you just have to recover as quickly as possible and keep playing. The end result is that your ability to recover smoothly from mistakes is improved.

An unrelated benefit of using practice tracks, for me at least, is that it's much more enjoyable, and hence I tend to stick with it longer. It feels more like playing than practicing.

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Edited by - DaddyJ on 08/12/2010 10:00:05

I don't mind flubbing when I playing a lead. I figure I have to make about 100,000 mistakes before I get good, so every flub is just one step closer.

I hate it when I flub when playing a lead AND my fellow jammers lose the beat at the same time. It is nearly impossible to recover from that situation. On the other hand when I get to play with really good musicians, I always play better because they keep the rhythm rock solid no matter how far in the weeds I get. Even low-level jammers should be able to chunk out a solid slow-jam rhythm. Especially on guitar - if you are playing rhythm and flub up the chords, you can just keep your right hand going and mute the strings with your left hand until you can find a place to jump back in.

If you are a novice player and want a very friendly introduction to jamming, attend one of Pete Wernick's jam camps. WOW - playing guitar with Pete Wernick backing you on banjo is awesome. Same with the local hotshots he gets to help with some of his camps - like Steve Lewis and Scott Freeman in North Carolina.

One day you'll hit a solo that seems to come out of nowhere, unplanned, as you jam. Then, you'll realize that your noggin didn't get in the way of your fingers. It's a rush I'll personally never forget.

That's an interesting observationm, Buddy. When I was younger I used to take some swing dance lessons in the early 1990s trying to "meet chicks" during the swing dance fad of that time. (See also: the movie "Swingers" with Vince Vaughn) I found myself to be a lousy dancer because I kept thinking "Next I'll do this move, then I'll do this move," and it lacked flow and I'm sure was very stiff and unimpressive to my young partners.

Sometimes I feel like my playing suffers in the same way. I think: "I'll play this lick next over the C chord, then go to this on the F, etc." and ultimately I am not actually playing, but just stringing together a disjointed series of thoughts that never can quite keep up with the music. It lacks flow.

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Originally posted by ahelmes71

That's an interesting observationm, Buddy. When I was younger I used to take some swing dance lessons in the early 1990s trying to "meet chicks" during the swing dance fad of that time. (See also: the movie "Swingers" with Vince Vaughn) I found myself to be a lousy dancer because I kept thinking "Next I'll do this move, then I'll do this move," and it lacked flow and I'm sure was very stiff and unimpressive to my young partners.

Sometimes I feel like my playing suffers in the same way. I think: "I'll play this lick next over the C chord, then go to this on the F, etc." and ultimately I am not actually playing, but just stringing together a disjointed series of thoughts that never can quite keep up with the music. It lacks flow.

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I was working on a new song last night and my mind started wandering. When I came back, I realized I was playing the right thing and I hadn't messed up. Even though I didn't really know the song, somehow my ears were telling my fingers what to do without my brain being involved. That's the first time that's ever happened in over 20 years of playing guitar. I got so excited about it I promptly lost my place and messed up. But still, progress is progress.

I didn't read through all the posts but to explain my teaching method....'
I teach through example meaning that I show tune after tune but each arrangement has something extremely important within. You may not know it or you may get stuck at it (bingo).
the question of learning many variations to the songs for jams? NO (not at first anyway)

Learn as many songs as you can.
What will happen is you will fill your head up with different tags, runs, rolls, melodies and tunes. You will use these in tunes, once you have had enough time behind the instrument (different for everyone) to slip or interchange runs and rolls and licks. You will do this unknowingly or on purpose but eventually you will do it and then find it hard to play it exactly the same each time.

Learn lots of tunes for the level that you are at and you will have more fun playing than studying.
Each tune is an exercise.
Holler at me with questions anytime
steve@flatpik.com
SK

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Originally posted by Flatpik

I didn't read through all the posts but to explain my teaching method....'
I teach through example meaning that I show tune after tune but each arrangement has something extremely important within. You may not know it or you may get stuck at it (bingo).
the question of learning many variations to the songs for jams? NO (not at first anyway)

Learn as many songs as you can.
What will happen is you will fill your head up with different tags, runs, rolls, melodies and tunes. You will use these in tunes, once you have had enough time behind the instrument (different for everyone) to slip or interchange runs and rolls and licks. You will do this unknowingly or on purpose but eventually you will do it and then find it hard to play it exactly the same each time.

Learn lots of tunes for the level that you are at and you will have more fun playing than studying.
Each tune is an exercise.
Holler at me with questions anytime
steve@flatpik.com
SK

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This is a strainge post If the orginal poster has been playing since 1986 and only olayed 12 min??? what gives Learning chords would give anyone a leg up on going to jams Know one can or will know all the snongs their unless ist's just some friends playing the same thing over and over

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Originally posted by fred davis

This is a strainge post If the orginal poster has been playing since 1986 and only olayed 12 min??? what gives Learning chords would give anyone a leg up on going to jams Know one can or will know all the snongs their unless ist's just some friends playing the same thing over and over

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Is there an opportunity to learn from a jam setting.? Ive been a few times but found so many playing at once hard to comprehend. The point seemed to be more social.

It helps to think of music like a team sport. If you think music is something you do solo, this may not apply.

Can a baseball player work out by himself? Absolutely. He can throw at a target, hit off a tee, do calisthenics, go to the batting cage, and any other number of drills to improve his game. What if he has a buddy? That opens up even more possibilities. They can throw with each other, they can pitch to each other, hit to each other, even work on some limited game situations. There are entire books filled with drills and exercises that can be done solo or with a partner.

When he shows up for team practice, however, that’s where the real learning begins. He learns to face live pitching. He learns the roles and responsibilities of his position. He learns who covers 2nd on the steal if the batter is left handed. He learns when to take and when to swing. He learns when to hit the cutoff and when to throw it to 3rd or home. These are things he didn’t even THINK about when he was playing by himself. Things that he’ll need to know in the next game if he doesn’t want to let his team down.

Jamming is the same thing. Situations will come up that you never even think about when you’re playing by yourself. Learning to deal with these situations in a group setting, where everyone is counting on you to hold up your end of things, is where you really learn how to play music with other people. I think you can learn more in one good jam session than you can in weeks of practice by yourself.

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Originally posted by DaddyJ

It helps to think of music like a team sport. If you think music is something you do solo, this may not apply.

Can a baseball player work out by himself? Absolutely. He can throw at a target, hit off a tee, do calisthenics, go to the batting cage, and any other number of drills to improve his game. What if he has a buddy? That opens up even more possibilities. They can throw with each other, they can pitch to each other, hit to each other, even work on some limited game situations. There are entire books filled with drills and exercises that can be done solo or with a partner.

When he shows up for team practice, however, that’s where the real learning begins. He learns to face live pitching. He learns the roles and responsibilities of his position. He learns who covers 2nd on the steal if the batter is left handed. He learns when to take and when to swing. He learns when to hit the cutoff and when to throw it to 3rd or home. These are things he didn’t even THINK about when he was playing by himself. Things that he’ll need to know in the next game if he doesn’t want to let his team down.

Jamming is the same thing. Situations will come up that you never even think about when you’re playing by yourself. Learning to deal with these situations in a group setting, where everyone is counting on you to hold up your end of things, is where you really learn how to play music with other people. I think you can learn more in one good jam session than you can in weeks of practice by yourself.

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Originally posted by buddy
That's prolly one of the reasons Steve Kaufman advocates learning tunes.

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Originally posted by DaddyJ

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Originally posted by buddy
That's prolly one of the reasons Steve Kaufman advocates learning tunes.

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A few years ago when I took up mandolin (for the first time), I was asking around for advice on where to begin. Someone told me, "Learn 20 fiddle tunes, then you're ready to get started." I've never forgotten that, but I have yet to do it.

It's funny how sometimes the simplest advice is the hardest to follow!

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Originally posted by SLKmartin

Is there an opportunity to learn from a jam setting.? Ive been a few times but found so many playing at once hard to comprehend. The point seemed to be more social.

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Buddy. Do you approach any one to ask "just how did you do that "or would you try to work it out alone? I've always liked the Band setting for improving my lead licks as its easy to get a leg up with band mates. The Jam was not like that for me...... When I have an opportunity to jam again i'LL try sitting to to others fingerboard and see if I can cop some moves that way......................Steve. That could work for me too! ........

Edited by - SLKmartin on 08/26/2010 19:11:15

Ive been told and practice that you should learn songs and also have a planned practice time. Know what your going to practice and do it. It works for me:)
Tim

Excellent thread - and one that has developed rather nicely (just like a fine improvised break!). JazzRambler's mentions of playing through changes and use of chromatics especially ring true with me - often it's the use of such techniques that cause me to stop and think "What was that? What did he just play then?!" I'd add rhythmic variation to the mix. It's that melodic and rhythmic invention that is usually far more appealing than pure speed (to me, anyway).

It's been a few years since I attended any bluegrass jams (hope to find a few local ones after Christmas and/or when I've a few more tunes memorized) but what was nice was that on the vocal songs I got to improvise more freely than on the fiddle tunes. Partly this was because I didn't feel tied to the melody (although on occasions I did just stick to the melody) and partly because the chord changes didn't tend to whip by so fast (although there are exceptions, of course!).

Like many players here I have a long background (indeed, a current parallel background) in other music - rock'n'roll and country for me, rather than blues - and the way I improvise in those styles doesn't necessarily translate to fiddle tunes. Anyway, what I'm doing at the moment is going way back to basics and working on touch and tone. Listening to some of you guys play I'm way off the pace in such matters.

Anyway - great thread. Good advice. Many thanks.
Derek

(PS aplogies for resurrecting an old thread again - when I was reading the earlier posts I looked at a date and thought it had been posted in November...but of course the dates are in US nor UK format. Sorry!)

Edited by - delboy on 11/25/2010 02:13:54