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Brian T - Posted - 08/27/2008: 11:16:41
First post and I've always wondered about this:
For many years, I've noticed that the thickness of flatpicks does vary, some brands even color coded and the thickness (thou'?) stamped into the plastic.
Depending on what you are expected to be doing in a jam, should I use thicker for single note stuff and thinner for backing chords?
In all fairness, I think that bluegrass banjo roll patterns sound pretty good (if not too loud) behind a singer. Using a National thumb pick and I/M Propics.
"Keep Your Eyes On The Horizon" (K.T. Oslin)
guitdawg - Posted - 08/27/2008: 11:25:05
I think most Flatpickers find a pick they like and tend to use it regardless of which "part" they are playing.
There are no real wrong answers with this though. Use whatever feels good to you!
Bird Dog - Posted - 08/27/2008: 11:29:05
I usually use either Fender Extra Heavies or Dunlop 2mm for bluegrass. Sometimes I'll use Fender Heavies. Anything lighter just breaks, but I do use all kinds of stuff when just playing at home for fun. But I would certainly say thicker, not thinner, for rhythm and backup, at least on a dreadnought with medium strings.
Robin
musekatcher - Posted - 08/27/2008: 11:39:55
I made myself switch to thicker picks years back, and I'm glad I did. It forced me to develop more tone in that hand. My tone is much improved now, no matter what pick I use.
Jim Holland
Athens, AL
Tyler Thompson - Posted - 08/27/2008: 14:21:33
I use a Wegen bluegrass guitar pick. It's pretty heavy (1.4 mm) , so it definetly makes you dig in more, but you get much better tone and volume.
gutbucket - Posted - 08/27/2008: 15:36:39
I've fallen in love with the Bluechip picks for mandolin and guitar. They really bring out the volume and tone of stringed instruments and never wear out.(or so they advertise). The pick material is really slick and makes for speedier action across the strings. Before using these I was a Wegen man.
jimarshall - Posted - 08/27/2008: 19:01:53
My style of crosspickimg has developed over the last 50 years or so by using a fairly thin pick (Dunlop Tortex .73) at the moment). However my mandolin pick is a Dunlop ultex 2.0. I will use an even thinner pick sometimes for 12 string.
HD-28 Martin - Posted - 08/27/2008: 19:22:51
I have tried the heavier picks through the years, even bought a real thick pick form Elderly's once but I could never get used to how the felt, so I have stayed with the Triple Corner Fender Mediums (not the big triangle ones) over the many years of playing, plus I like the fact if I break a corner while playing I can rotate it and get back to pick'in, I also drill three small holes around the center for better hold.
Big John
1993, HD28-Martin
1987, Gibson Earl Scruggs Standard
Edited by - HD-28 Martin on 08/27/2008 19:26:06
countrydirt - Posted - 08/27/2008: 21:08:25
I have continued to move up to thicker and thicker picks. I have used Dunlop Nylons almost exclusively. Started out with .73 mm ( which now feel like notebook paper), moved up to the .86, then 1.0 Black nylon and now onto a blue 1.07 mm. I also use a 1.0 red, clear Big Stubby. Now that I am picking at a mandolin, I am thinking about going even thicker, maybe even modifying some old bone buttons into picks.
Owner of several, master of none!
biznork - Posted - 08/27/2008: 22:38:05
1.15
TonyH - Posted - 08/28/2008: 05:12:38
I use Dawg Picks and Ultex 1.14 for flatoicking and use Ultex 1.0 for just strumming around. So i never use the lighter or Fender medium weight picks. Those Fender mediums were great when i was learning playing Neil Young and Dead tunes. But for flatpinkin, i tear right thru them.
Yuletide - Posted - 08/28/2008: 05:42:30
I'm not sure it matters much. When I was playing mandolin a lot, I tended to have very heavy picks around, and I'd use those on guitar too, for both strumming and melody. Then I was playing tenor banjo a lot and tended to have lighter picks around, in the .6. to .7 range (for playing those irish triplets), and used them for guitar too. The only picks that I avoid are REALLY light picks because they are too "slappy" sounding for strumming and to quiet for melody or bass notes on acoustic guitar.
BTW, someone told me once that if you find a U.S. quarter too stiff to pick with, it means your grip isn't relaxed enough. I think there's some truth in that.
Yuletide Bob
Couchie - Posted - 08/28/2008: 09:01:47
I like Clayton or Tortex picks, the large triangle size. Heavier gage is what I prefer.
Don
stocek - Posted - 08/28/2008: 09:28:15
I like the 2.5 mm wegens. But they do slow me up a bit. I like to have a 1.5 mm pick as a back up for faster playing.
Aaron Stocek
Portland, OR
Flatpicker - Posted - 08/28/2008: 09:29:47
I use heavy. The medium and thin are too wobbly.
Austin
What''s the easiest way to get a guitarist to stop playing? Put a sheet of music in front of him.
ac5aa - Posted - 08/28/2008: 11:39:48
I don't like the Wegens, but I've found (so far) I really like the Dunlop Ultex 1 mm.
Duane C.
Austin, TX
Brian T - Posted - 08/28/2008: 11:52:47
Interesting general trend to thicker picks. Thank you all. These days, I've been using a Dunlop red (whatever thickness that is). I had an idea that thicker might be better for picking and thinner for chords. I appreciate musekatcher's observation that a thicker pick forced his hand (couldn't resist!) That's a worthy point to try out.
I still think that these Hangouts are Slange's idea of the best living encyclopedia I could ever find. Hooray for Eric!
"Keep Your Eyes On The Horizon" (K.T. Oslin)
Bonnie - Posted - 08/28/2008: 11:56:34
I like a bunch of picks. They are different tools for different jobs :)
Brian T - Posted - 08/28/2008: 14:49:56
OK Bonnie, you're on. Which is for what for in the tunes you play?
"Keep Your Eyes On The Horizon" (K.T. Oslin)
Brian T - Posted - 08/28/2008: 16:59:59
Update: redbeartrading.com makes picks out of some polymerized animal protein, supposed to be the closest thing you can find to tortoise shell. NOT CHEAP. I just bought a TT-MED to try out, much thicker than I'm accustomed to. What the heck..
"Keep Your Eyes On The Horizon" (K.T. Oslin)
Bikewer - Posted - 08/28/2008: 19:29:54
Back when I was reading Guitar Player regularly, I noticed that nearly everyone you ever heard of had different ideas about picks...Everything from chunks of lucite to pesos.....
They're cheap, experiment.
I use the Dunlop .88 mm jobs, the gray ones. Nice combo of brightness and durability.
When I was fooling with more jazzy stuff, I liked the blunt, stubby little jazz picks by Dunlop as well.
talespinner - Posted - 08/28/2008: 19:32:31
I'm more a fingerpicker than a flatpicker but I do a fair bit with the flatpick. For many years I played almost always with very thin picks. When I started playing mandolin, however, I got used to using either Dawg picks or Saga Golden Gate picks (my favorite). So now I use them on the guitar as well. This has meant, at least on the J-45, that I've gone up a gauge in strings, from Medium Light to true Medium. With the heavy pick and the heavier strings, I'm getting a really fine tone. I also use the Herco picks that are a combination flatpick/thumbpick in Extra Heavy when I want a quick and easy shift from flatpicking to fingerpicking and back again -- they just make it a little easier to grab notes with the middle and ring fingers when I'm flatpicking and want the extra texture. Mostly, though, I just use the heavy flatpick and go for the finger notes when they're wanted.
talespinner - Posted - 08/28/2008: 19:35:45
Forgot to mention -- I have a white Fender extra heavy pick and a multicolored no-name pick that's kind of medium heavy, and I've had them both since 1964. They're still in the case with me wherever I go and sometimes I still use them just for fun.
Chadtheguru - Posted - 08/30/2008: 13:54:29
I use the blue (1mm?) delrin picks from Fender. I'm pretty sure it's the same as the "Tortex". The seem stay in plance and not bend when I don't want them to.
Chad
bryankimsey - Posted - 08/31/2008: 14:03:44
In a mixed rhythm/lead playing situation (.ie most of the time) I like a 1.0 to 1.2 mm pick, Red Bear B or Clayton Ultem, both with the point slightly knocked off.
In a contest situation where I'm playing only lead and lots of it, I like an .80 mm Ultem.
The difference is that the thinner pick lets me play a little harder w/out over-driving the guitar and thereby keeps my tone more even and helps prevent missed notes. Since I'm playing twice as many notes as I'd normally play, there's less time to relax and the thinner pick doesn't tire me out. Keep in that whatever pick you use, the shape of the tip and the bevel make a BIG difference in the final tone. Also, me personally, I never "dig in", but let the pick smack the top of the string and "skim". There's very little pick showing past my fingers.
MitchellB - Posted - 08/31/2008: 20:11:14
All my flatpicks are the same basic shape; large rounded triangle picks, but I use a thinner pick for playing my electric guitars and a heavier pick for my acoustics.
Mitchell
old7 - Posted - 09/01/2008: 03:08:42
I've tried all types over the years and have a couple of pouches full for the effort. I keep coming back to the run of the mill Martin heavy.
old7
paulusamericanus - Posted - 09/02/2008: 01:56:21
I love the 3.0 Big Stubby. I don't want to use anything else, especially in front of the television where I play most of the time.
tfaux - Posted - 09/02/2008: 14:51:53
Fender extra-heavies. I buy them by the bag---a gross, I think---and it lasts a year or so. Wish I could still get the ones with the cool palm tree logo but they only seem to come in white these days/years.
Tom
(edit reflects adjusted typo)
Edited by - tfaux on 09/03/2008 10:27:07
Stefan - Posted - 09/03/2008: 06:03:13
I use Wegen bluegrasspicks. 1.0 mm. Thicker than that doesn´t sound good to my ears.
JonT - Posted - 09/05/2008: 11:41:27
The answers here are all good ones, but my take on this is just a little different. For me, pick thickness has as much to do with the tone you want, and with your comfort with that pick thickness, as anything else.
I may be wrong about this, but it seems to me that newer, less experienced players tend - tend, I say - to be more comfortable with lighter pick, probably because they flex and thus minimize the challenges of hanging onto them.
As players get a little more expreienced, I think, their confidence, and pick-grip skills evolve and improve, so they can move to a heavier pick.
And a heavier pick does influence tone. At least it does for me. And I've noticed that the pick I prefer for my HD-28, for example, isn't necessarily the best choice for my Santa Cruz 12-fret Dread. So the way the instrument responds to the pick has some influence on what pick one selects.
Bottom line, I think, is that there isn't necessarily a right answer. It's more what you like, what you feel comfortable with, and what best and most easily produces a tone that pleases you.
But that's just me. As always, your results may - and probably will - vary.
Best - JFT
Bonnie - Posted - 09/05/2008: 18:47:27
quote:
Originally posted by Brian T
OK Bonnie, you're on. Which is for what for in the tunes you play?
"Keep Your Eyes On The Horizon" (K.T. Oslin)
That's a tad bit hard to understand, but that's probably due to my lack of intelligence  "Which is for what for" These are not rules for me, just what is coming to mind. Slow tunes where it just has to sound sweet and a bit mellow - Golden Gate Swing backup or oddly syncopated backup- back of a regular pick or a Golden Gate - something thick and roundish Regular lead - a 1mm, maybe the front rounded just a bit Really crisp sounding strumming - thinnish pointed pick I guess I don't currently use any thin picks, and a lot of this has to do with pick shape. And it also doesn't have as much to do with "tunes" as it does style. Are fingers better, or is a flatpick better? To me, it depends on what I'm playing. And by all means, don't take what I say to be something specially meaningful :) I"m not particularly learned on picks, nor am I a specialist at playing guitar ;)
Bonnie - Posted - 09/05/2008: 18:49:21
quote:
Originally posted by paulusamericanus
I love the 3.0 Big Stubby. I don't want to use anything else, especially in front of the television where I play most of the time.
I just found I have one of these and at first I really liked it but now I seem to hear a bunch of clicks with the pick. Do you find that to be true as well? I might pull it out tomorrow again and try to play around with it.
Brian T - Posted - 09/05/2008: 23:00:45
This is all good advice to me. I had a personal opinion that smoother strumming might be easier with a thinner pick for a duffer like me. I took my one and only RedBear pick on a guitar shopping trip today. Didn't buy anything but found two acoustics for 700-800 that I have to think hard about. That pick is the stiffest/thickest that I've ever had. I played with fewer than 20 guitars, all surprisingly different. Same strums, same little tunes, same hammers, slides and pull-offs. Some, I liked the sound right away, others were just the opposite. The stiff pick made strums less controllable for me, but that's just my lack of skill with that pick. But for the single note stuff, pretty nice.
"Keep Your Eyes On The Horizon" (K.T. Oslin)
OldD18 - Posted - 09/05/2008: 23:48:15
I've noticed thru the years that the great tonemeisters tend to have beefy hands...and somewhat chubby fingers. not exclusively, but in general.
My theory on pick thickness is that thin picks act as shock absorbers between the string and the hand...and therefore are a strong contributor to the tone one gets, while thicker picks allow the meat and tendons in ones hands to contribute to the pull on the string...and the ultimate tone. Chubby fingers = chubby tone...
So I say, let your tendons contribute....I use Clayton 1.52mm
regards, bud
musekatcher - Posted - 09/06/2008: 15:14:49
I've got a 5mm pick for gypsy style. Now that will really force you to develop technique in your hand and fingers. There's a lot going on in the fingers. If you can find a closeup of TR, you can see it.
Jim Holland
Athens, AL
Bonnie - Posted - 09/06/2008: 20:01:01
quote:
Originally posted by musekatcher
I've got a 5mm pick for gypsy style. Now that will really force you to develop technique in your hand and fingers. There's a lot going on in the fingers. If you can find a closeup of TR, you can see it.
Jim Holland
Athens, AL
Oh wow, did TR play with a 5mm, or is it just the technique you're referring to that he uses? (Or technique in general.)
musekatcher - Posted - 09/06/2008: 21:43:45
Oops, I ran it all together. TR doesn't use a 5mm pick. But, Django did use very thick picks. Their attack is very different, as is their tone. I was suggesting that it might be quicker to develop the extra dexterity in the fingers that guys like TR have, but using a thick pick. Then, after you've developed that, you can go back to a little thinner pick. If you find a video of TR's hand, you'll see a lot of finger motion along with his hand and wrist.
Jim Holland
Athens, AL
Keithflatt - Posted - 12/13/2008: 10:55:09
I've went back and forth so many times i can't count, but really thickness is personal and the great pickers are all over the map. Steve Kaufman of course uses a med pick as well as ( at least early on ) Norman Blake who used a Fed med - Robbin Kessinger (s?) uses a flexy pick. I find unless your hands are real strong it's tough to get dynamics out of a real stiff pick, it sounds almost machine gun like. - I've been in jam at my house where the guy using a real stiff pick is tough to hear, mainly because he has to hold the pick so loose because the pick won't give. Steve Kaufman told me at one of his workshops that when he heard Tony Rice play without a mic, he could hardly hear him playing, that's why Tony uses a real hot mic when playing live.
Now having said that, the thing that's ironic is, my fav tone players like Mr. Rice, David Grier all use a stiff pick, but have the good fortune of having a good mic handy - IMO of course.
Keithflatt
Edited by - Keithflatt on 12/13/2008 10:59:36
Johnboy109 - Posted - 12/13/2008: 17:58:51
I've used matchbook covers,the plastic tabs used on bread loaves,aircraft quality brass picks,sharkfin picks with the ruffled edges,I come back to Dunlop or Fender Medium gauge. If the tip is too flexible, turn it around and play the the thick end.
When they outlaw guitars,only outlaws will have guitars.
MitchellB - Posted - 12/13/2008: 19:51:46
Another thing I have discovered is the vast difference in the tone of each picked note or strum depending on the thickness, shape and material a flatpick is made from. Take a handful of ˝ dozen different types of picks you got laying around sometime and try them all out comparing the tones your guitar can produce. I’m sure you see a slight difference between many of them.
Mitchell
rookie_davis - Posted - 12/14/2008: 10:36:46
For me, the axis of symmetry where comfort and tone is maximized is 1.25 for rhythm and lead. If I haven't played seriously in a while and I need to play at a jam, I'll go with a 1.00 for a while, until I can play with the 1.25 and still feel like I'm not not having to put extra muscle into it. Even with the 1.00, I still feel like I get a thin, kind of "slappy" tone that I don't very much like listening to. 1.25 is the "hi-fi experience", for me.
just joe - Posted - 12/16/2008: 19:59:38
Dunlop Big Stubby 3.0mm. It just feels right
forksken - Posted - 12/16/2008: 22:53:40
I used to use dunlop 88s for many years and still keep some on hand but have recently switched to fender mediums cause I got a new martin that has more volume and lower action so i dont need to play so hard.I find that if you use too much pick and hit too hard you loose a lot of finesse in your playing and also break more strings ha ha. try to find a pick that is just thick enough to give you some volume but not so hard that you are over playing or plucking too hard.the pick should have enough give to slip off the string without slapping into the next. once again if you are using too thick of a pick and plucking the string too hard your tone and control go away fast.
pick till my fingers git sore then pick some more
Mike Pullen - Posted - 12/17/2008: 08:10:55
When I first started playing I used thinner picks just because I had trouble hanging onto heavier ones. I decided to ask the players whose tone, style and speed I admired most and every one used a heavy pick. Tony Rice, Clarence White, Eric Clapton and others. So I began to "adjust" to the heavier pick. It was a struggle at first but now I wouldn't use anything but heavy.Once You learn to use the heavy pick You will find it is actually faster too just because there is no give and it is off the string faster and ready for the next note. I have a few tortoise shells that I love but don't use them alot just because they are so hard to replace. I will probably purchase a few Red Bear Heavy picks soon. The better your guitars tone the more you will appreciate the tone from these picks. MP
apb - Posted - 12/17/2008: 15:39:52
Been lurking for a while and thought I'd share my experience.
Spent time with Kauffman some years ago and converted. I stayed with this for some time (years) until while comparing guitars with Bill Collings he suggested I would get better tone with a heavier pick. Messed around with various picks and went back to a heavier tortix (purple). I then found a source for good organic picks and have used them until recently when I got a Blue chip.
The organics were in the range of 2mm and sounded good but are rather hard to play with and take a lot of hand / arm strength. I use large triangles and they round off pretty quickly which gives a softer and somewhat fatter tone.
So far (weeks) I'm pretty impressed with the Blue Chip. I have the pointy triangle and it gives a little sharper sound that what I was using but I think the trade off in sound is worth the reduced effort in playing. This pick really slides off the strings easily. I suspect the rounded version might be the hot tip but I have not reshaped the one I have or ordered another yet.
Archie
bayviewrr - Posted - 01/08/2009: 17:16:16
I've been using Fender xtra heavy for as long as I can remember. A few years back I ran out and had trouble finding them locally so I tired a whole slew of different picks but none felt just right. Ended up buying a gross of extra heavys on line and threw them in my top drawer. At my age, I'm thinking I'll never run out now.
"If the girl''s alive at the end of the song, it ain''t bluegrass"
Guitarplr1975 - Posted - 01/09/2009: 21:47:14
I have had one pick for about a year now....Tortise shell..It's a medium - heavy thickness.
I think the most important thing to remember is that all pickers are different and they all play different styles, so different picks fit them...the Dunlop does not sound natural to my ear as a good tortise pick. I have tried all different types of picks as well .....Golden Gates are to muddy to me, Red Bears are to sharp....
Just my thoughts....
Larry Jackson "Bunky"
SouthernStarBluegrass
Florida
{=o=}==:::
1951 CF Martin D-28
1970 CF Martin D-28
2008 CF Martin D-18GE
martinboy - Posted - 01/17/2009: 12:16:08
I have been going back and forth with wegan and tortoise,
but I think that a thick pick is the way to go.
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